It's Time To Revisit Secondary Position Penalties

SDS

The time has come to revisit how secondary position penalties are assessed in DD.

Its 2020 and there are a lot of players who play multiple positions, and do it exceptionally well.

For example, Cody Bellinger is currently a RF in game, but takes a secondary position penalty if you move him to CF or 1B.

# of Plate Appearances for Bellinger at each position in 2020:

CF: 1350
1B: 593
RF:........ 4

Furthermore, Cody Bellinger is an exceptional defender at all of his eligible positions according to baseball savant, so the concept of assessing a secondary position penalty is arbitrary.

Kiké Hernandez, Austin Barnes, Max Muncy, Chris Taylor, Adam Duvall, Austin Riley, and basically the entire Rays roster is in the same boat. And that's not even thinking about it, those are just from the teams that are playing today.

TL;DR - secondary position penalties should only apply if the player in question is actually a worse fielder at their secondary position(s).

SDS

100% agree can't even remember the last time I saw Bellinger play right

SDS

@LankyRyan said in It's Time To Revisit Secondary Position Penalties:

The time has come to revisit how secondary position penalties are assessed in DD.

Its 2020 and there are a lot of players who play multiple positions, and do it exceptionally well.

For example, Cody Bellinger is currently a RF in game, but takes a secondary position penalty if you move him to CF or 1B.

# of Plate Appearances for Bellinger at each position in 2020:

CF: 1350
1B: 593
RF:........ 4

Furthermore, Cody Bellinger is an exceptional defender at all of his eligible positions according to baseball savant, so the concept of assessing a secondary position penalty is arbitrary.

Kiké Hernandez, Austin Barnes, Max Muncy, Chris Taylor, Adam Duvall, Austin Riley, and basically the entire Rays roster is in the same boat. And that's not even thinking about it, those are just from the teams that are playing today.

TL;DR - secondary position penalties should only apply if the player in question is actually a worse fielder at their secondary position(s).

Couldn’t agree more!!! Most players these days play multiple positions well. They should create a “utility” position. For example Bellinger would be at 100% if he plays CF, RF or 1B.

SDS

I 100% agree with this, but I dont see how they can make it happen. But hopefully they can and will. Also got to add take away positions from guys that havent played their recently. Tons of examples of this. Or maybe give them a harsher penalty and leave those positions they havent played at for years.

SDS

I made a post about this earlier in the year. The system needs to be redesigned so each player has a rating at each specific system. I wish I could find the post I made for it, but for example bellinger would be 100% in the OF and at 1B, but like 10% of his fielding ability everywhere else or something like that.

More importantly it would mean we don’t have as many people playing stupid secondary positions perfectly - Mookie comes to mind as somebody who would get like 60% at 2B, while catcher is even more noteworthy in general. Schwarber, who hasn’t caught in years, would be like 30% behind the plate.

SDS

I think they definitely need to clean up some of the positional assignments in general. Seeing Adam Duvall play 3B for the Braves in Conquest is both hilarious and immersion breaking. There's plenty of examples like this.

But for the guys that actually play multiple positions, wouldn't it be fairly easy to just add a new perk? I don't know the optimal configuration. No penalty? Reduced penalty? But slap a "Mr. Utility" quirk in there and maybe it would be a little more efficient?

SDS

@Original_Quad said in It's Time To Revisit Secondary Position Penalties:

I made a post about this earlier in the year. The system needs to be redesigned so each player has a rating at each specific system. I wish I could find the post I made for it, but for example bellinger would be 100% in the OF and at 1B, but like 10% of his fielding ability everywhere else or something like that.

More importantly it would mean we don’t have as many people playing stupid secondary positions perfectly - Mookie comes to mind as somebody who would get like 60% at 2B, while catcher is even more noteworthy in general. Schwarber, who hasn’t caught in years, would be like 30% behind the plate.

Yeah those are the two I was thinking of, as well. This information is easily quantifiable and readily available, it shouldn't be difficult to implement.

I don't remember the PA threshold SDS uses when determining secondary position eligibility, but Schwarber definitely didn't meet it at C. And he definitely doesn't warrant the "x% reduction in fielding because secondary" treatment.

SDS

@brayden_lhp said in It's Time To Revisit Secondary Position Penalties:

100% agree can't even remember the last time I saw Bellinger play right

Especially with Betts there now.

SDS

With the "Quirks/Perks" system, I imagine that it wouldn't be hard to make a Perk that makes it so that they have reduced or even no penalty to their secondary positions. They could call it "Utility-Man" or "Team Player" or something.

There ya go, SDS. We have figured this out.

SDS

@BodamEscapePlan said in It's Time To Revisit Secondary Position Penalties:

With the "Quirks/Perks" system, I imagine that it wouldn't be hard to make a Perk that makes it so that they have reduced or even no penalty to their secondary positions. They could call it "Utility-Man" or "Team Player" or something.

There ya go, SDS. We have figured this out.

I like it. From an actual baseball perspective any shortstop can easily play 3rd or 2nd without really losing anything. Outfield to infield is a really tough sell, and even right or left moving to center is not an easy transition.

I think a utility perk for those rare guys that can really exceed at multiple positions makes sense. I also think a decreased penalty for SS moving to 3rd or 2nd makes a lot of sense too though it really hasn't been that big of a deal.

SDS

Also CF should be able to move to R or Left with a decreased penalty. You're essentially cutting their job in half, though you are adding the necessity of navigating foul ground and the edges, so some penalty makes sense.

SDS

@Hubijerk said in It's Time To Revisit Secondary Position Penalties:

@BodamEscapePlan said in It's Time To Revisit Secondary Position Penalties:

With the "Quirks/Perks" system, I imagine that it wouldn't be hard to make a Perk that makes it so that they have reduced or even no penalty to their secondary positions. They could call it "Utility-Man" or "Team Player" or something.

There ya go, SDS. We have figured this out.

I like it. From an actual baseball perspective any shortstop can easily play 3rd or 2nd without really losing anything. Outfield to infield is a really tough sell, and even right or left moving to center is not an easy transition.

I think a utility perk for those rare guys that can really exceed at multiple positions makes sense. I also think a decreased penalty for SS moving to 3rd or 2nd makes a lot of sense too though it really hasn't been that big of a deal.

I would say most people would agree that this would be the simplest route to fixing this issue. Personally, I would love it. I always seem to be playing a shortstop at 2B and a CF in all three of my outfield spots.

SDS

I like the idea up there ^^ of a mr utility quirk that cancels the negative penalty to fielding if that player is in their secondary

SDS

@ZayFeaR_ said in It's Time To Revisit Secondary Position Penalties:

I like the idea up there ^^ of a mr utility quirk that cancels the negative penalty to fielding if that player is in their secondary

But it should be a rare perk, it could actually be a pretty powerful perk.

SDS

I absolutely agree with this, but I also think they need to take away some of the extra secondaries. Some guys haven’t played there in years or at all.

If I remember correctly, they usually give third baseman a 1B secondary and vice versa. Same for middle infielders. I know they said in one stream that every CF automatically gets both corners and every corner OFer gets the other corner.

SDS

@bhall09 said in It's Time To Revisit Secondary Position Penalties:

I absolutely agree with this, but I also think they need to take away some of the extra secondaries. Some guys haven’t played there in years or at all.

If I remember correctly, they usually give third baseman a 1B secondary and vice versa. Same for middle infielders. I know they said in one stream that every CF automatically gets both corners and every corner OFer gets the other corner.

I think the arbitrary awarding of secondary positions like that does need to go. Every MLB LF can't play RF, or vice versa. I think it should simply be based on what positions they actually do play (or did play the prior season in the case of at launch).

SDS

You'd have to go both ways then.
There are players that play multiple positions and statically arent great at one or multiple positions. For context, Albert Pujols is a gold level 1B easy, he should be a bronze at 3B by his career numbers there.

SDS

@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in It's Time To Revisit Secondary Position Penalties:

You'd have to go both ways then.
There are players that play multiple positions and statically arent great at one or multiple positions. For context, Albert Pujols is a gold level 1B easy, he should be a bronze at 3B by his career numbers there.

That's exactly right, that was the idea by going off their actual performance on a per position basis.

SDS

Ummmm, This is Diamond Dynasty. We play with people who have been dead for over 50 years. Whining about secondary penalties and what positions listed as secondary is important?

Smh. Kids these days

SDS

@CalisGW said in It's Time To Revisit Secondary Position Penalties:

Ummmm, This is Diamond Dynasty. We play with people who have been dead for over 50 years. Whining about secondary penalties and what positions listed as secondary is important?

Smh. Kids these days

Yeah, okay. Suggesting an improvement is whining.

Thank you for your valuable input on the topic.

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